Poland’s Shipyard Foundation sees growing civic participation as ‘shipbuilding’

One of the more than 80 members of People Powered is the Shipyard Foundation, a Polish civil society organization established to “create and support effective solutions to social challenges and involve citizens in deciding on public matters.” Here is an edited interview conducted by Pam Bailey, People Powered communications director with Maria Jagaciak, Shipyard’s civic participation specialist.

Every organization has a founding story. What’s yours? (In particular, where did your name come from?)

Shipyard was founded 15 years ago, when a new era was dawning in Poland, after the fall of the Soviet Union and the NGO sector was emerging. Our name represents the idea that we create ideas and processes, sort of like ships. Sometimes, we work on our own and sometimes we collaborate with other people, but then we give the result away to the world. 

Our team of almost 40 people focuses on social innovation, civic participation and related research. We provide expertise and facilitate the exchange of knowledge. To promote civic engagement, we organized an annual, two-day forum for about 300 participation practitioners. They exchange knowledge, and share their fears and hopes related to civic participation. We also created a dedicated website where we publish information about what's new in participatory democracy, along with a newsletter.

One of our earliest successes was about eight years ago, when there was a big movement in conjunction with the introduction of the law governing internet use in Europe (called ACTA), which was not based on proper public consultation. It got people into the streets! We proposed seven rules for public consultation in Poland and they became almost like rules for ministries.

Unfortunately, however, the quality of democracy at the national level has changed for the worse during recent years. The government is very populist, relying on simple explanations and fear to manipulate.

So, do you focus on local government instead?

Local governments are indeed very different. While progress at the national level has stalled during the last years, it’s gotten so much better locally. They are more open to participation and using new methods, especially related to the climate agenda we’ve been working on. We’re seeing them use tools like participatory budgeting, public consultations and citizens’ assemblies.

Shipyard recently organized Poland’s first national citizens’ assembly. How did that evolve?

Over the past seven years, there have been 11 local citizens’ assemblies in Poland, and we worked on two of them. 

The first assembly co-organized by Shipyard was held in a city in the eastern part of Poland and the topic was smog. But we don’t consider it a success, because the subject was too broad for the time allocated. Plus, there were some methodological challenges. The city didn’t know how to implement the recommendations from a legal point of view, for example. Plus, the list of recommendations was too large. The city wasn’t ready for it.

The second one was held in Warsaw, the capital of Poland, two years ago. This time the topic was energy efficiency and how to increase the use of renewable sources, and the city was very responsive.

The metaphor of the shipyard is also appropriate for the process of organizing citizens’ assemblies. We built the “ship,” showing others how to use this method. We are in the process now of thinking about what we should do better, what we should do next, is this a method that we want to recommend? We really think that the current system for making public policies needs more involvement from citizens. And this is a tool that may be helpful, especially if it is repetitive.

That’s why we recently organized a citizens’ assembly at the national level on energy poverty.  But due to the current government’s attitude about participation, this one was bottom-up. Although we have proposed that the government be involved , they weren't so keen to take part. Then again, we wouldn't want to work hand in hand with them either, because of their populist leanings.

Polish citizens confer during the recent national citizens’ assembly on energy poverty.

Now, we’re working on developing a narrative about the assembly and its recommendations that key stakeholders will find interesting. We’ve gone to both chambers of the Polish parliament with our results, and although we’re doubtful the ruling party will take them into consideration, we’re still fighting for it. We’re also looking forward to the next election process in October or November; maybe someone else will take the assembly results and do something with them.

Of course, the risk is that it doesn't have a big impact. Citizens’ assemblies require a lot of effort, and money. And if it doesn't have any impact, people won’t try it because they’ll be afraid. So, from our perspective, it’s important to have someone [in government] who will at least listen.

How were the topics for the assemblies chosen?

In both of the local cases, the topic was chosen by the city government. On the national level, the topic was chosen by us. We had been thinking about energy poverty for quite a while, and then we received an offer of financial support for a climate-related initiative from the European Climate Foundation. That settled our choice. 

Although the first citizens’ assembly in Poland was on gender issues, the rest have been about climate-related topics: how to prepare for a heavy rainfall, smog and civic engagement in climate policy.

Poland is one of the biggest polluters in Europe, and the biggest source is households that burn coal or wood, contributing to air pollution and related deaths. The problem is that there are a lot of coal mines in Poland, and many people work there, so the industry has a strong lobby. And there isn’t much of a national conversation about how to help those people make a transition into other types of work. Then there are others who are concerned about the costs of moving away from coal; they worry that the cost of living will go up too much. So, it's difficult to end the use of coal. And that’s why we need this process.

Recruitment was a major challenge. It required quickly convincing the person on the other end of the phone to take part in an unprecedented experiment in Poland.

However, it’s important to note that there are a lot of other issues that are pressing that we’d like to focus on, like the retirement age, abortion and education reform.

What was the biggest challenge in going national with a citizens’ assembly?

One big challenge was sortition. We didn't have any support from the national authorities, so it was difficult to obtain a database within our allotted time and budget. And second, we had to figure out how to cost-effectively choose people and invite them to the process. Not everyone knows Shipyard, so our invitation might have been considered  “shady.” It took us months of consultations to find the best solution. 

But we were successful. We managed to get 86 people out of the 110 we wanted, who stuck with us throughout the process. We're really proud of that, because other national citizens’ assemblies in Europe experienced a big drop off over time. Like, they started with 70 and finished with 50. 

Another challenge was how to educate participants on creating actionable recommendations that are not too broad and that can be implemented by our government. For example, a recommendation to change our education system to make sure people know what energy poverty is would be too broad and vague. At the other extreme, it’s important not to have recommendations that are so specific and narrow that we overwhelm the government with a large number. 

How did you ensure that the assembly was as inclusive as possible?

We tried to help people come from every corner of Poland, because sometimes it requires more than half a day or even a day to reach Warsaw. We helped them arrange transportation. We offered child care. And when it came time for online voting, we assisted people who didn’t have computers, taught them how to use the technology and made sure they had an internet connection. If necessary, we even had people go to their homes.

To what extent is the Russian invasion of Ukraine still a challenge for Poland?

Everything is affected. It put a huge “hole” in our work because funders and government lost interest in anything else. For example, we started the citizens’ assembly process in the spring and we wanted to create some kind of local councils focused on energy poverty, but it was so difficult. We didn't know if we could start conversations on topics other than the Ukrainian crisis. It was natural for Polish people to put everything else on hold. About 70% of people in Poland were volunteering in some kind of way to help. People opened up their homes, and the NGO sector adapted really fast. We were all engaged; Shipyard too. For example, we very quickly conducted social research when the war first started to help the Warsaw municipality adapt to the situation. We produced a guide to how to respond to the needs of the influx of refugees.

Now, over the last months, local governments and the national government have figured out more systemic and tech solutions and are doing more. So is the NGO sector. People are still helping if needed, but it's more structured and governmental now. 

Of course, it’s still a big issue. There are a lot of people here from Ukraine. You hear them everywhere: the education system, the work system. And some people complain about them “taking our jobs and our money,” which can lead to dangerous behavior.

But Poland has always been home to a lot of Ukrainians, so we’re used to their presence  and can easily adapt to this situation.

How does membership in People Powered help with your work?

Engagement with People Powered is a great opportunity for us to “sneak” into the world, to see what's going on and broaden the exchange-of-knowledge part of our work. We are focused on Poland, but we want to find out what's going on in other parts of the world too. The mentoring program is very attractive, for example. It allows us to learn about other cultures and systems, as well as how others respond to similar challenges. In some ways, it’s the same everywhere. In addition, through the mentor program, we can help others by sharing our expertise. 

The People Powered workshops and newsletters are very helpful too; we share them with Polish society via our website and Facebook.